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#26 6/28/2011 5:24 pm

CViper
Member
From: Salford, Greater Manchester
Registered: 8/8/2009
Posts: 8039

Re: Piano music

User972302 wrote:

I think your argument is that their music was too simple to be revolutionary.

Nope, I think that they weren't THAT revolutionary because there were many bands at the same time doing similar things that weren't as publicised as The Beatles.


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#27 6/28/2011 5:34 pm

Reaganrocks
Member
Registered: 12/23/2010
Posts: 3863

Re: Piano music

Im surprised Shrub aint on this.


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#28 6/28/2011 5:43 pm

User972302
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From: I am 18 yrs. old
Registered: 1/14/2011
Posts: 5590
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Re: Piano music

CViper wrote:

They played simplistic beats and riffs that any beginner could play. Hardly revolutionary I'm sure you would agree.

User972302 wrote:

I think your argument is that their music was too simple to be revolutionary.

I'm not trying to put words in your mouth, I'm just re-stating what you wrote in simpler terms (irony). Are you abandoning your original statement? I can adapt to your new argument, but don't make me look like I'm misinterpreting you.

Adapted argument: You think they weren't "THAT revolutionary?" That's weird, I'm pretty sure if you're revolutionary you make an extremely large impact on something. Is there some secret scale of revolutionaryness I don't know about?

CViper wrote:

there were many bands at the same time doing similar things that weren't as publicised as The Beatles.

Yes that's because many of them were A) influenced by The Beatles, B) doing similar things but not as effectively as The Beatles, and C) not as consistent with musical creation as The Beatles (who released over 40 albums not including their still popular unpublished works). If you're a composer you know that to be able to write music that consistently with that much quality, creativity, and uniqueness every single time is rare.


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TWO War Record: 163.5 - 42.5 (est. 50 matches missing) TW3 War Record: 114 - 45
Total War Record: 277.5 - 87.5 Notable Opponents

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#29 6/28/2011 6:07 pm

Twinfan
Member
From: Gotham
Registered: 11/17/2008
Posts: 6241

Re: Piano music

I don't like The Beatles, but there is a reason they are remembered as the best band ever (even if they are not). The notion that they are by far the best band ever is what agravates me and leads me to call them the most over-rated band ever.

Edit: Nice job on that Lost theme Upgrade.

Last edited by Twinfan (6/28/2011 6:10 pm)


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I am no longer an active member of Twboards, but if you need--or want--to talk to me, I have left the option of sending an email available. If you abuse it or spam me or something, I will A) Promptly remove the email option, and B) Hunt you to the ends of the Earth. Choose wisely and I wish you all the best of luck...

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#30 6/28/2011 6:18 pm

exe.Cute
Member
From: South Carolina
Registered: 8/12/2008
Posts: 4634

Re: Piano music

I recorded another one.  I don't think this one came out as well but this is about as good as it's going to be so I went ahead and uploaded it.

The Starway

The idea behind this one is background music for a dungeon in an MMORPG centered around the "element" of space (as opposed to time).


While no longer active on these forums, I'm available by email if you'd like to talk to me.

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#31 6/28/2011 7:09 pm

User972302
Member
From: I am 18 yrs. old
Registered: 1/14/2011
Posts: 5590
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Re: Piano music

DAMN EXE!

That's sweeeeeeeeeeeet! So exciting, awesome job. I can just picture that in a game like TW3 tongue


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TWO War Record: 163.5 - 42.5 (est. 50 matches missing) TW3 War Record: 114 - 45
Total War Record: 277.5 - 87.5 Notable Opponents

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#32 6/28/2011 8:58 pm

CViper
Member
From: Salford, Greater Manchester
Registered: 8/8/2009
Posts: 8039

Re: Piano music

User972302 wrote:

CViper wrote:

They played simplistic beats and riffs that any beginner could play. Hardly revolutionary I'm sure you would agree.

User972302 wrote:

I think your argument is that their music was too simple to be revolutionary.

I'm not trying to put words in your mouth, I'm just re-stating what you wrote in simpler terms (irony). Are you abandoning your original statement? I can adapt to your new argument, but don't make me look like I'm misinterpreting you.

Whilst you aren't putting words into my mouth you are quote mining the words that I used. I used three points to support my argument and the one you pulled out was the one I referred to last and hence the least important one. Although thinking about it, I don't see how something that simple could be revolutionary.

That's weird, I'm pretty sure if you're revolutionary you make an extremely large impact on something.

Many artists make a large impact on the music industry but that doesn't mean that they're revolutionary. Is Justin Beiber revolutionary? Is Beyonce revolutionary? Are Metallica revolutionary? All of these have had large impacts on their respective genres but none of them could be considered revolutionary.

Yes that's because many of them were A) influenced by The Beatles, B) doing similar things but not as effectively as The Beatles, and C) not as consistent with musical creation as The Beatles (who released over 40 albums not including their still popular unpublished works). If you're a composer you know that to be able to write music that consistently with that much quality, creativity, and uniqueness every single time is rare.

Their genre was created in the 50's; the band themselves didn't come onto the scene until the 60's. The simple fact is, they weren't that original. If a band makes a song one year but only one hundred people listen to it, that doesn't mean that the song is bad. If one of The Beatles heard this song and based one of their songs off it, who is revolutionary? Just because one band doesn't gain the popularity and recognition that they deserve, doesn't mean that they weren't the one revolutionising the scene. The Beatles merely brought the genre into the mainstream but that doesn't mean that they should be credited. Pretty much your entire argument revolves around "The Beatles were extremely popular and that means they changed music". They didn't

All of what I just said pretty much has no meaning anyway because the music itself was not revolutionary anyway.

The Beatles songs are not creative, they are not unique and they are certainly not quality musicians. All of their songs follow the same structure: Simple and easy drum beat, simple and easy bass rhythm, simple and easy guitars and too much emphasis on the vocals. Produce and Repeat.

They did revolutionise pop culture but NOT music.

Last edited by CViper (6/28/2011 9:01 pm)


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#33 6/28/2011 9:24 pm

User972302
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From: I am 18 yrs. old
Registered: 1/14/2011
Posts: 5590
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Re: Piano music

This argument is pointless because now it's entirely opinion-based. The below quote is your opinion, but it's one that I couldn't disagree with more. I think it's ludicrous and unjustifiable, and I think it's something that millions of professional musicians would completely disagree with.

CViper wrote:

The Beatles songs are not creative, they are not unique and they are certainly not quality musicians.

This is an assumption, but I strongly doubt that you know enough about musical composition to be making such a claim. I know I don't, and I've been studying music for years. You keep saying their songs are simple, but like I said that's the worst argument you could have possibly thought of. Simple music has often been the greatest music in history. Take Mozart's first Sonata in C Major, the one almost everyone in the world has heard. That's quite possibly the most simplistic version of a sonata you'll ever find from any composer who ever wrote classical music, and yet it's considered one of the greatest. I also question your generalization of their music. You claim nothing they did was unique, when in reality they pioneered good musical orchestration, sound production, and bent the boundaries of their genre by using extremely controversial lyrics and unusual instruments. You are making claims that cannot possibly be backed up with anything other than blunt opinion, which isn't something I'm going to argue with you about. If you think the Beatles were a bad band, that's your opinion. But when you claim they made no impact on the music of their time, you are simply wrong. They pioneered the music video. They were pioneers in the concept of writing and recording their own music. They were the pioneers of specific sound production techniques and innovations. They were the first to use feedback on a rock record. They were certainly the first successful band that included many classical instruments in more than a few of their biggest hits. The list goes on.


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TWO War Record: 163.5 - 42.5 (est. 50 matches missing) TW3 War Record: 114 - 45
Total War Record: 277.5 - 87.5 Notable Opponents

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#34 6/28/2011 10:38 pm

Twinfan
Member
From: Gotham
Registered: 11/17/2008
Posts: 6241

Re: Piano music

You've been studying music Upgrade? Anything beyond the piano or self-motivated research?


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#35 6/28/2011 10:51 pm

CViper
Member
From: Salford, Greater Manchester
Registered: 8/8/2009
Posts: 8039

Re: Piano music

I did not say that they had no impact. The whole point of my previous post was "just because they made an impact doesn't mean that they are revolutionary". They weren't revolutionary. Everything they did (even the music videos that you think they had pioneered) had already been done by other artists in the late 50's and very early 60's. And any shift in the music scene (which wasn't much) can also be attributed to any band in what is now known as "The British Invasion". Every band involved in that is at least as innovative and revolutionary than The Beatles. This is not opinion as you like to think. I'm sure when you read this post, you can pick out one opinion, pull it out and then say that my entire post was opinion based like you did in your last post but that would be quote mining. Again.

I am not that familiar with Classical music on the whole. I searched the Mozart piece you referenced and it was at least ten times more complex than anything that The Beatles have ever done. I may have clicked on a wrong link (even though I copied and pasted what you said into youtube), you may have given the wrong piece, the video may have been incorrectly titled but as it stands, it takes a lot more skill to play Mozart than it does The Beatles.


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#36 6/29/2011 12:13 am

Reaganrocks
Member
Registered: 12/23/2010
Posts: 3863

Re: Piano music

You say that cause you are British yourself.


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#37 6/29/2011 12:35 am

Slicknife
Member
Registered: 7/10/2010
Posts: 6608

Re: Piano music

Reaganrocks wrote:

You say that cause you are British yourself.

The Beatles are British so what's your point?

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#38 6/29/2011 2:31 am

cliffcatastrophe
Member
From: I don't know.
Registered: 8/8/2010
Posts: 705

Re: Piano music

I loved it Exe. What grade piano do you play? I just took my grade 10 exam a few days ago, and I think I passed, lol.


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#39 6/29/2011 3:16 am

User972302
Member
From: I am 18 yrs. old
Registered: 1/14/2011
Posts: 5590
Website

Re: Piano music

CViper the reason I don't quote your entire posts when I reply is because it isn't necessary. We can all see what you wrote, and I still address everything that needs to be addressed in my response. I quote specific things for emphasis, it's not quote mining. I will quote and refer to each one of your points clearly this time, though, to make it more obvious.

CViper wrote:

I did not say that they had no impact. The whole point of my previous post was "just because they made an impact doesn't mean that they are revolutionary". They weren't revolutionary.

You're right, I misspoke. I was referring to this:

CViper wrote:

"The Beatles were extremely popular and that means they changed music". They didn't

It's almost the same thing, but I see where you're drawing the line and that's fair. I still argue that they did indeed change music, or have an impact on it, or however you want to word it. I refer again to the examples I provided.

CViper wrote:

They weren't revolutionary. Everything they did (even the music videos that you think they had pioneered) had already been done by other artists in the late 50's and very early 60's. And any shift in the music scene (which wasn't much) can also be attributed to any band in what is now known as "The British Invasion". Every band involved in that is at least as innovative and revolutionary than The Beatles. This is not opinion as you like to think.

I don't just think they pioneered music videos, I know it. It's a fact.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/dna/h2g2/A3404611

CViper wrote:

I'm sure when you read this post, you can pick out one opinion, pull it out and then say that my entire post was opinion based like you did in your last post but that would be quote mining. Again.

That's not what I was doing and we both know that.

CViper wrote:

I am not that familiar with Classical music on the whole. I searched the Mozart piece you referenced and it was at least ten times more complex than anything that The Beatles have ever done. I may have clicked on a wrong link (even though I copied and pasted what you said into youtube), you may have given the wrong piece, the video may have been incorrectly titled but as it stands, it takes a lot more skill to play Mozart than it does The Beatles.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JcUh-ggBfzI

^^^ That's the link to the song I'm referring to. You seem absolutely ignorant on this subject because you are comparing the complexity of Mozart's classical music of the mid-1700s to that of The Beatles rock music of the mid-1900s. That makes no sense at all and it's certainly not what I was doing. I said that Mozart's sonata, WITHIN HIS TIME PERIOD, was extremely simplistic. Why do you think it's the one every beginning piano student learns first? ANY classical music you can find has a huge chance of being way more complex than ANY rock music you compare it to. The reason classical musicians and teachers are not often fans of rock music is because they have been educated in the finer details of music that are not at all touched upon in rock music. I study counter point, voice leading, and music theory for my composition endeavors because it teaches a person how to build phrases. The thing about classical music is that it's full of long phrases that are often boring to listeners of today. The most climactic parts of classical music are what you hear every day in rock music. My composition teacher actually talked about this recently. He said that, to him, rock music isn't as interesting or engaging because it leaves out all of the complexities and build ups of classical music and goes straight for the "juicy parts," leaving it sort of empty to him. This is why most ballade form rock pieces follow the same structure. It's also why The Beatles' songs sounded very simple. The chord progressions you can find in any mid-1900s rock music are most closely related to the Blues and Jazz periods before it, but they actually originated in extremely complicated classical music. To try to compare classical music's complexity to rock music's complexity doesn't work. Honestly, it's ridiculous. You're claiming that The Beatles weren't musically revolutionary because they weren't written with the same complexity of sonatas of the 1700s! It doesn't work.

Also, to say that The Beatles were not revolutionary because they simply built on new and unsuccessful ideas is like saying Bill Gates wasn't revolutionary because he simply built on the computer, which was not invented by him. The same way Bill Gates invented extremely important functions for the computers of today, The Beatles invented extremely important methods for recording, performing, and publicizing rock music.

Twinfan wrote:

You've been studying music Upgrade? Anything beyond the piano or self-motivated research?

Yes, although most of my study revolves around piano performance and composition, that in and of itself teaches me a lot about music and its origins. I've done AP level classes in my high school for composition and I'm going to be the assistant teacher in that class next year (Junior year) because I won a fairly prestigious award from my school in freshman year. I'm preparing a program for performance next year with a girl who also won. She's a violinist and pianist, and my goal is to be able to compose music for ensembles, not just solo piano as I have been doing for the past few years. The reason I generalize and say "I've been studying music" is because after 11 years of piano performance, 3 years of composition, and 2 years of music history, I feel I'm educated enough to make that claim.


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TWO War Record: 163.5 - 42.5 (est. 50 matches missing) TW3 War Record: 114 - 45
Total War Record: 277.5 - 87.5 Notable Opponents

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#40 6/29/2011 4:35 am

exe.Cute
Member
From: South Carolina
Registered: 8/12/2008
Posts: 4634

Re: Piano music

cliffcatastrophe wrote:

I loved it Exe. What grade piano do you play? I just took my grade 10 exam a few days ago, and I think I passed, lol.

I took lessons for like eight years or so and quit about five years ago.  I'm not sure where I was back then, but since I stopped taking lessons I've only done this sort of composition and improv stuff.  I don't think I'm as technically skilled as I used to be, but I enjoy it a lot more than I ever enjoyed reading sheet music so it's what I do now.


While no longer active on these forums, I'm available by email if you'd like to talk to me.

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#41 6/29/2011 5:15 am

Twinfan
Member
From: Gotham
Registered: 11/17/2008
Posts: 6241

Re: Piano music

I see you're very experienced in that field Upgrade, point proven lol. You going to relay any of that into a career or college stuff?


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I am no longer an active member of Twboards, but if you need--or want--to talk to me, I have left the option of sending an email available. If you abuse it or spam me or something, I will A) Promptly remove the email option, and B) Hunt you to the ends of the Earth. Choose wisely and I wish you all the best of luck...

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#42 6/29/2011 11:56 am

CViper
Member
From: Salford, Greater Manchester
Registered: 8/8/2009
Posts: 8039

Re: Piano music

User972302 wrote:

CViper wrote:

They weren't revolutionary. Everything they did (even the music videos that you think they had pioneered) had already been done by other artists in the late 50's and very early 60's. And any shift in the music scene (which wasn't much) can also be attributed to any band in what is now known as "The British Invasion". Every band involved in that is at least as innovative and revolutionary than The Beatles. This is not opinion as you like to think.

I don't just think they pioneered music videos, I know it. It's a fact.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/dna/h2g2/A3404611

Wikipedia wrote:

In the late 1950s the Scopitone, a visual jukebox, was invented in France and short films were produced by many French artists, such as Serge Gainsbourg, Françoise Hardy, Jacques Brel, and Jacques Dutronc to accompany their songs. Its use spread to other countries and similar machines such as the Cinebox in Italy and Color-Sonic in the USA were patented. In 1961 Ozzie Nelson directed and edited the video of "Travelin' Man" by his son Ricky Nelson. It featured images of various parts of the world mentioned in the Jerry Fuller song along with Nelson's vocals. In 1964, Kenneth Anger's experimental short film, Scorpio Rising used popular songs instead of dialog.
In 1961, for Canadian show Singalong Jubilee, Manny Pittson began pre-recording the music audio, went on-location and taped various visuals with the musicians lip-syncing, then edited the audio and video together. Most music numbers were taped in-studio on stage, and the location shoot "videos" were to add variety. In 1963, singer Kyu Sakamoto is featured on the Japanese television program Shall We Meet At Seven? singing eight of his best-known songs, including his international hit Sukiyaki. Sakamoto is shown singing the latter as he walks through an alley past barrels.
One of the earliest Videos of a Top 40 hit, was Jan & Dean's "Surf City", produced in Summer 1963, contemporaneous with the single release reaching Number One nationally in July 1963 (ref: Wikipedia). Filmed on location on Pacific Coast Highway in Malibu, it's a period-piece, capturing much of the atmosphere and vibe of the Southern California early 60's beach scene. This video is readily available for download and viewing on YouTube.com.
Another early performance clip was The Animals's 1964 hit "House Of The Rising Sun". This high-quality color clip was filmed in a studio on a specially-built set; with the group lip-synching.

If you "know" things, perhaps you'd like to get your facts straight. All of the above happened before The Beatles. Even when The Beatles did do a music video, the director is mostly credited.

Film critic Roger Ebert credits Lester with constructing "a new grammar":
" ... he influenced many other films. Today when we watch TV and see quick cutting, hand-held cameras, interviews conducted on the run with moving targets, quickly intercut snatches of dialogue, music under documentary action and all the other trademarks of the modern style, we are looking at the children of A Hard Day's Night".

CViper wrote:

I'm sure when you read this post, you can pick out one opinion, pull it out and then say that my entire post was opinion based like you did in your last post but that would be quote mining. Again.

That's not what I was doing and we both know that.

I'll address this and your first paragraph together. Now that you explain what you did it makes more sense but it came across as though you didn't even read it. It was less of the fact that you only put one quote (that wasn't what I was saying at all) because it was more of the fact that you deemed everything I said as opinion (it wasn't) and then you misquoted me saying that they made no impact. An easy misunderstanding.

Mozart

The fact is, rock music can be just as complex as classical music. I can compare the two because there are a lot of bands around as complex as Mozart. It doesn't matter the time that the music is created. It's like saying "you can't compare a modern day play to that of Shakespeare". Yes you can, easily. I may be ignorant in regards to music. I haven't studied music properly for six years. I can however play a few instruments and can assert that at a Grade 8 level (the highest you can get) any instrument (even drums) can be as complex as music in the 1700's. I really don't understand your point about comparing The Beatles to Mozart. Even if it was simple FOR A  SONATA, it's still ten time more complex and takes ten times more skill to play Mozart.

Also, to say that The Beatles were not revolutionary because they simply built on new and unsuccessful ideas is like saying Bill Gates wasn't revolutionary because he simply built on the computer, which was not invented by him. The same way Bill Gates invented extremely important functions for the computers of today, The Beatles invented extremely important methods for recording, performing, and publicizing rock music.

Your logic is like saying Henry Ford is a true revolutionary of the car when all he did was take something expensive and make it affordable.


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#43 6/29/2011 1:19 pm

exe.Cute
Member
From: South Carolina
Registered: 8/12/2008
Posts: 4634

Re: Piano music

The Beatles are one of, if not the, most influential bands of all time.  I think that, for the most part, it doesn't really matter whether or not they were the first to do things, or whether or not they were particularly great at doing them.  That's just arguing fine print.  What matters is the impact that they had on music, which is undeniable, even if you believe that another similar group could have had the same impact.  It doesn't really matter.  It's not about whether or not they were special and doing something that only they could do.  It's about the fact that they did it.

Similar concept (warning, TV Tropes): http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/M … peCodifier


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#44 6/29/2011 3:00 pm

CViper
Member
From: Salford, Greater Manchester
Registered: 8/8/2009
Posts: 8039

Re: Piano music

But they still don't deserve the title revolutionary. Yes, they made a big impact and were influential and I do not deny this (an I never have). But they did nothing new. The Model T Ford was not revolutionary but it's the car that everyone remembers.

Last edited by CViper (6/29/2011 3:01 pm)


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#45 6/29/2011 4:20 pm

Twinfan
Member
From: Gotham
Registered: 11/17/2008
Posts: 6241

Re: Piano music

exe.Cute wrote:

Similar concept (warning, TV Tropes): http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/M … peCodifier

What's up with this?


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I am no longer an active member of Twboards, but if you need--or want--to talk to me, I have left the option of sending an email available. If you abuse it or spam me or something, I will A) Promptly remove the email option, and B) Hunt you to the ends of the Earth. Choose wisely and I wish you all the best of luck...

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#46 6/29/2011 4:25 pm

exe.Cute
Member
From: South Carolina
Registered: 8/12/2008
Posts: 4634

Re: Piano music

I'm just saying whether or not they were revolutionary is pretty unimportant and not really worth discussing.

Trope Codifier is a similar concept.  The warning being that TV Tropes will devour hours of your time if you aren't careful.


While no longer active on these forums, I'm available by email if you'd like to talk to me.

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#47 6/29/2011 4:55 pm

User972302
Member
From: I am 18 yrs. old
Registered: 1/14/2011
Posts: 5590
Website

Re: Piano music

CViper wrote:

If you "know" things, perhaps you'd like to get your facts straight. All of the above happened before The Beatles. Even when The Beatles did do a music video, the director is mostly credited.

Oxford American Dictionary wrote:

Pioneer - a person who is among the first to research and develop a new area of knowledge or activity

Did I ever say The Beatles created the first music video? No. Does it even matter who created the first music video? Not at all. The fact is, The Beatles were among the first to develop the standard for the music video we know of today. Who cares whether they had a good director? That's part of what it takes to make a video! You can't just say that because they had a good director who did "most" of the work (as though you've measured that) that they're not revolutionary. That's illogical.

CViper wrote:

It was less of the fact that you only put one quote (that wasn't what I was saying at all) because it was more of the fact that you deemed everything I said as opinion (it wasn't) and then you misquoted me saying that they made no impact.

I didn't deem everything you said as opinion, I simply stated that your main argument had shifted from a fact-based one to a completely opinion-based one, which it had. I drew the line between where our discussion would fail miserably and where it could still be kept up. I also cleared up my reasoning for "misquoting" you. You said The Beatles did not change music, which is basically the same thing as saying they had no impact on music. I didn't quote you word for word for a reason. I paraphrased what you wrote and I didn't put it in quote text for that reason.

CViper wrote:

The fact is, rock music can be just as complex as classical music. I can compare the two because there are a lot of bands around as complex as Mozart. It doesn't matter the time that the music is created. It's like saying "you can't compare a modern day play to that of Shakespeare". Yes you can, easily. I may be ignorant in regards to music. I haven't studied music properly for six years. I can however play a few instruments and can assert that at a Grade 8 level (the highest you can get) any instrument (even drums) can be as complex as music in the 1700's. I really don't understand your point about comparing The Beatles to Mozart. Even if it was simple FOR A  SONATA, it's still ten time more complex and takes ten times more skill to play Mozart.

The fact is, this entire point you're making doesn't work because you're trying to create a scale for how revolutionary The Beatles were by comparing the complexity of their music to the complexity of Mozart's music of the 1700's. Maybe in some rare circumstances you can find rock music that is that complex (I highly doubt it and I already explained the REASON for why rock music is less complex, and it's not necessarily a bad thing), but that's besides the point. The point is that your entire comparison in no way measures how revolutionary The Beatles were. You seem to think that the complexity of someone's work is what determines the quality of it. That's absurd.

CViper wrote:

Your logic is like saying Henry Ford is a true revolutionary of the car when all he did was take something expensive and make it affordable.

Instead of answering my analogy you're just giving me a new one in response. I don't understand at all how your analogy compares to mine, please explain.

Also, I think it's time we defined what "revolutionary" really means. You seem to think that in order to be revolutionary, The Beatles would have had to have been the first band to do certain things (which they were in a number of categories). I think they were revolutionary because of the large impact they had (which you now seem to agree with) on music.

Oxford American Dictionary wrote:

Revolutionary - involving or causing a complete or dramatic change.

I think this perfectly fits The Beatles, and as exe said, it's undeniable that they were an extremely influential band and they had a large impact on music.


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#48 6/29/2011 5:00 pm

Reaganrocks
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Registered: 12/23/2010
Posts: 3863

Re: Piano music

1 error User, you used Oxford American dictionary.


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#49 6/29/2011 5:02 pm

User972302
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From: I am 18 yrs. old
Registered: 1/14/2011
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Re: Piano music

Why is that an error?


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#50 6/29/2011 11:34 pm

Walrus King
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From: Tennessee
Registered: 12/2/2009
Posts: 4570

Re: Piano music

I think I for one, will concede that User is right about this. Cviper, even if The Beatles simply did mostly things that were already done by more obscure artists, they would still be revolutionary simply due to the fact that the other bands didn't become as well known and hence didn't cause as much of a change. So perhaps you could argue that the Beatles were not any more innovative then those other artists but you can't say they weren't more revolutionary then they were. I suppose this was mostly just restating what was said before but now to my next point.

You both seem to agree that Mozart is more complex then The Beatles. I think the problem with this is that you are both merely referring to the structure of the songs. I don't know many Mozart songs at all, but I think it's safe to say that The Beatles used a wider variety of genres and instruments in their music than Mozart, even if their songs were merely structured like typical pop rock songs (beat, riff, chorus etc.) So in this particular aspect, you could say The Beatles were more complex. I would say this is pretty much true of alot of 1900's music compared to most pre-1900's music, notably because the pre-1900's musicians simply didn't have the variety of genres and instruments the 1900's artists did and do. I'm not claiming The Beatles were generally more complex then Mozart, just saying that you should think of complexity on multiple levels. By the way, I would say The Beatles are "quality musicians" on account of what I referred to earlier. Even though there were other artists around that time who were less known that I'd consider to be just as innovative if not more innovative, that doesn't mean The Beatles were bad, it just means the other artists were better.

User wrote:

Maybe in some rare circumstances you can find rock music that is that complex (I highly doubt it and I already explained the REASON for why rock music is less complex, and it's not necessarily a bad thing.)

Have you tried Symphonic Progressive Rock? I believe alot of songs in that genre are just as complex structurally as many classical songs. I wouldn't know for sure, since I haven't heard that much classical music, but it's probably worth checking out to see if I'm right, since I'm assuming you'd probably be a better judge of that claim then me.


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