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#1 7/13/2014 7:45 pm

Puri
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From: California
Registered: 7/24/2011
Posts: 1062

Why I think TW3 is dead and how Upgrade ruined it.

This is somewhat of a rant post but something I've wanted to talk about quite a while.

The game played fine since it came out up until Upgrades Blitzkrieg tourney, after that it all went down hill and let me explain why.

Memorized angles -

It's something that should have stayed in TWO and was actually needed. In TWO grenade didn't bounce as much as grenades in TW3 and we didn't have the additional weapons we do now.

Obviously this was never a problem, it did become one after the Blitzkrieg tourney. A clan called Reflexic Six was created, they were pretty bad and even retired players who stopped playing after the tourney would easily beat them. Then Upgrade joined, and dedicated so much time into making a website which included some tricks to hit grenades and mortars perfectly and memorized angles for every map, every side. I'm not talking about one or two, I'm talking about 20+.

This made new players play very well without little skill which is what the game was about, I remember Afro-Ninja wanted to eliminate the problem of finding auto-kills/memorized angles. It was just about who knew the most angles in a game. I consider myself to be a pretty good player as I could beat everyone except Ken in my prime. But it was ridiculous that even new players could easily pick up the game and effortlessly beat a very experienced player just by looking at where to stand and where to aim on Upgrades "cheat-sheet". No more skill was involved and that discouraged some old players from playing the game anymore.

Then Upgrade stops playing, and he took it down, good. But it didn't end there.

Instead people like PhotoDojo are trying to make their own thing. I know Calum pretty much saved everything from the cheat-sheet because he told me before. I know that nothing can be done about it now. I understand players like you and all who used memorized angles every turn can't probably win without them. R6 clan was a perfect example, terrible players until Upgrade showed them angles.
Everyone has used a memorized angle here and there, even me to blow up the cross statue on graveyard, but it's ridiculous that there are angles for almost every spot now. I could do the same, spend some time on a cheat sheet myself, but there is no skill involved and it is quite boring, it makes the game bland.

Skill Rank -

This isn't about Upgrade anymore.

It was a pretty cool idea to add this in, it doesn't affect game play or anything, but it might discourage players from playing the game.

I've seen players in Ranked lobby refusing to play some players because of their skill rank, as if the number really even matters, no one cares. some players just want a decent game and that's all. Some players like Conantas won't even play me on his main account because they must protect their precious skill rank, oh god forbid what would happen if that numbered lowered. Game would have been better off without it. It's too late now to do all of those things.

After this tournament which I'm not even sure if it will be finished because Calum isn't very active, I will stop playing the game along the rest of the old players, knowing a whole bunch of angles is pretty cool, but it takes the fun out of the game. You don't feel the grenade anymore, you don't rely on what you should do. All you do is rely on a memorized angle and hope to hit full.

If you're one of those players who uses them. I think you're trash at the game and you're probably pretty bad at the game without them like the members of R6, learn to play the game like Afro wanted us to, without having a whole bunch of auto-kills. If my post irks you too much, go play TWO, everyone uses auto-kills/memorized angles there and it's fair, not here.

Last edited by Puri (7/13/2014 7:49 pm)


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#2 7/13/2014 8:21 pm

Walrus King
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From: Tennessee
Registered: 12/2/2009
Posts: 4570

Re: Why I think TW3 is dead and how Upgrade ruined it.

Oh boy, where to start? Let's see, TW3 was already dying long before Upgrade made his cheat sheet. In fact TW3 has been less active than TWO ever since it was made. People complained about its impending doom only a few months after it started. If anything, Reflexic Six made the game more active. A lot of people in it were very good at getting other people to play TW3. Also, a lot of people in Reflexic Six were very good long before Marc and Up found any autos (including Marc and Upgrade). To claim otherwise is simply bias and/or jealousy. Plus, the amount of autos and the amount of people who know autos is greatly exaggerated. Most of the autos can only work on one level (City), most of the autos can only work after the first round and are this preventable, most of the autos cause inconvenience but they don't kill people... Need I go on? TWO relied far more on autos than TW3 does. I agree with you that grenades were harder to hit on TWO but the autos were so extreme and numerous that nothing can justify them.

I don't see how skill rank can have a significant impact on the games activity. If it was gone people would still have wins and losses. People would still say they can't play on their main account. And besides, how would people not playing on their main account affect the activity of the game? It might be annoying for someone to say that but they would still play on a seperate account and thus still play the game.


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#3 7/13/2014 8:28 pm

Puri
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From: California
Registered: 7/24/2011
Posts: 1062

Re: Why I think TW3 is dead and how Upgrade ruined it.

the reason i say r6 was bad before was because they would war sw and lose all of the time to extremely rusty players.

Last edited by Puri (7/13/2014 11:58 pm)


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#4 7/13/2014 8:28 pm

...Ghostt...
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From: California
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Re: Why I think TW3 is dead and how Upgrade ruined it.

Damn that's long.  Lol everyone hates r6.  People would've learned autos eventually it's inevitable, baby anarchist for an example doesn't associate with clans yet he has/ still is learning autos.  R6 or not peopke would've learned autos.
NGIS is on now I wait for his negative bitchy comment

Last edited by ...Ghostt... (7/13/2014 8:41 pm)

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#5 7/13/2014 10:28 pm

shadow9997.0
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From: Washington
Registered: 5/25/2014
Posts: 151

Re: Why I think TW3 is dead and how Upgrade ruined it.

Completely agree with Puri's opinion. In clan wars, it really came down to who knew the best autos....
Maybe it wasn't Upgrade who started it but he did play a big role and we all know he won't admit it.
I spent a little bit of time with R6. "Let's go auto hunting" seemed to be one of their favorite terms to use.
I find it pathetic that some spent their time looking for ways to make the game harder for everyone else and less fun.
Personally, I don't think it was entirely Upgrade or Marc's fault.
I think the fault is in these "clans".
You can argue that they increased the popularity of the game, but it they also led to the downfall.

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#6 7/13/2014 11:00 pm

Kick2Legit
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From: California
Registered: 6/9/2012
Posts: 282
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Re: Why I think TW3 is dead and how Upgrade ruined it.

I played a few R6 members before the auto sheet. I honestly didnt really find one member to be a great player (except for Up), pretty much based on the fact that I would hardly play and still beat them. TW3 was basically dead after blitzkrieg in many clans, which left R6 to be the only clan that played on a regular basis. I feel like the cheat sheet made by Up was a main factor in killing competitive clan play.

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#7 7/13/2014 11:35 pm

Kai
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Re: Why I think TW3 is dead and how Upgrade ruined it.

I've jumped into so many of these arguments so you might know what I already think about your post, Puri. I'll explain into more detail if you ask, but for now I'll just say I think the angle reader should've stayed and implemented into tw3, I think the cheat sheet destroyed a little bit of gameplay, and I think skill rank could've been done better, or done differently.


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#8 7/13/2014 11:51 pm

Puri
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From: California
Registered: 7/24/2011
Posts: 1062

Re: Why I think TW3 is dead and how Upgrade ruined it.

ok well i agree i am wrong if we're talking about the people who aren't in clans in played the game, yeah the game died long before blitzkrieg, but if we're talking clan wise and competetive play like kick stated, i'd say upgrade/marc killed it.

i remember they would even need someone to coach some of the members through skype because they didn't know what to do or how to win, especially one called smasher". so wally please name these good players in r6 that were around before marc and upgrade did what they did.

Last edited by Puri (7/14/2014 12:07 am)


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#9 7/13/2014 11:53 pm

Revenge
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Registered: 3/29/2012
Posts: 543

Re: Why I think TW3 is dead and how Upgrade ruined it.

The maps are terrible another big reason why the game failed.

Last edited by Revenge (7/13/2014 11:53 pm)


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#10 7/14/2014 12:52 am

Walrus King
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From: Tennessee
Registered: 12/2/2009
Posts: 4570

Re: Why I think TW3 is dead and how Upgrade ruined it.

Puri wrote:

ok well i agree i am wrong if we're talking about the people who aren't in clans in played the game, yeah the game died long before blitzkrieg, but if we're talking clan wise and competetive play like kick stated, i'd say upgrade/marc killed it.

i remember they would even need someone to coach some of the members through skype because they didn't know what to do or how to win, especially one called smasher". so wally please name these good players in r6 that were around before marc and upgrade did what they did.

Coaching Smasher through a game was sort of a joke really and I think it only happened a few times. It seems to me all the bad rumors about R6 aren't strictly false but they are blown out of proportion.

I will list he people I would say were good in R6 before autos came into play. Now before you say "LOL X person beat them so they suck" I'm not saying they were god-tier undefeated incredible I'm just saying they were in the upper crust of TW3 players. I'm saying that because I bet kick or ken or somebody like that will come on and point out that they already beat the people I name, which is a stupid point because they are obviously some of the best TW3 players and they regularly topped tournaments/clan wars. So I'm basing my opinion on how these people played against the majority (which they usually won) rather than one or two pros.

Steven
Sly
Smasher (it took a while for him to get good but it happened before autos)
Straw (same as smasher)
Up
Marc

I honestly think its fair to put myself in that list but I guess I won't so I don't cause too much controversy. I assume you'll disagree with the whole list anyways but we can only leave it at he said/she said so there's what I'm saying.


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#11 7/14/2014 1:06 am

Puri
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From: California
Registered: 7/24/2011
Posts: 1062

Re: Why I think TW3 is dead and how Upgrade ruined it.

I disagree with everyone except Upgrade of course, and that's because I'm not the only one who has played them before.

They were always on top of R6 because there was no real competition the tournaments they won were hosted in R6 only. When Crazy and I got back to TW3 we had a year without playing so obviously they had the edge, yet we would still win except against people like Marc, Upgrade, Smasher (after cheat sheet). They weren't good to me, decent only. You probably see it this way because you didn't really participate in the three main clans in 2013 which were SW, TNT, and XS.

When XS warred R6 the line up was usually Crazy and I versus Smasher and Upgrade. The one time Sly was allowed to participate, he got demoted for losing to a rusty Puri. I hardly saw Straw war, and he wouldn't even ever war us. I know you're old to the community but clan wise you probably don't see it because like I said before, you weren't in the main clans.

Last edited by Puri (7/14/2014 1:21 am)


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#12 7/14/2014 1:27 am

Walrus King
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From: Tennessee
Registered: 12/2/2009
Posts: 4570

Re: Why I think TW3 is dead and how Upgrade ruined it.

That's possible but I did visit those clans a lot and if I remember correctly they had few people who even played TW3 and they rarely warred. The few people who played TW3 were usually very good but overall I didn't even see those as TW3 clans during most of 2013. I'm pretty sure SW didn't even identify themselves as a TW3 clan most of the time. So I admit most of the clans R6 competed with were full of nubs but there just wasn't a lot of people to compete with anyways. And I also feel like we held our own against those clans the few times we did war (even if we did lose most of the time, which I just don't remember, I definitely don't think we were constantly getting destroyed). Regardless, as I said, I don't think we can prove these claims and it's just our memory. Even if R6 wasn't good I still don't see how you can argue that we ruined TW3 so I still disagree with the main points of your post.


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#13 7/14/2014 1:38 am

Puri
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From: California
Registered: 7/24/2011
Posts: 1062

Re: Why I think TW3 is dead and how Upgrade ruined it.

Not all of R6, I just say Upgrade. I remember how we didn't want an angle reader and Upgrade agreed to that. I'm saying he ruined TW3 because R6 no longer relied on skill, just Upgrades cheat-sheet, and I think it's sad some players actually saved it.

SW was always a clan and very active from the beggining of the beta stages of the game to early 2013 which was when they stopped, same for TNT and XS. Then we stopped playing because we eventually got bored and found interest in other games such as SSL2. But before retiring we were always warring most of the time so I don't know where you are getting that the three main clans rarely warred. Records are there for proof, except XS because ShotsFired deleted the original website.

R6 was pretty good after Upgrade came, I don't deny it. They just didn't really rely on skill. R6 would do terrible in wars before they learned angles, otherwise they were very hard to beat players because of the cheat-sheet.

Last edited by Puri (7/14/2014 1:38 am)


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#14 7/14/2014 1:59 am

TheNGIS
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From: Here
Registered: 4/23/2013
Posts: 565
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Re: Why I think TW3 is dead and how Upgrade ruined it.

...Ghostt... wrote:

Damn that's long.  Lol everyone hates r6.  People would've learned autos eventually it's inevitable, baby anarchist for an example doesn't associate with clans yet he has/ still is learning autos.  R6 or not peopke would've learned autos.
NGIS is on now I wait for his negative bitchy comment

Lmao how nice of you to notice me. I wasn't actually going to go against your comment cause I agreed with most of it. If I'm honest, I got bored of R6 in its last 3 or 4 months, and now I actually regret putting the chat back up and writing that retarded bullshit statement on the site.

For Puri's post(s), I can't even bother now to read them because it's so fucking hot and I'm sweating as i'm typing this... haha fuck

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#15 7/14/2014 2:11 am

...Ghostt...
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From: California
Registered: 2/18/2014
Posts: 307
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Re: Why I think TW3 is dead and how Upgrade ruined it.

You go against me if I type anything usually.

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#16 7/14/2014 4:02 am

Seanishere
Member
Registered: 8/7/2012
Posts: 1333

Re: Why I think TW3 is dead and how Upgrade ruined it.

I agree with most everything you said Puri. Couldn't have said it better myself.

For you Wally, half of the people on that list were kinda bad when I played them before Up came along. The only people I really struggled with was Upgrade of course and Marc. They were decent no doubt but they were nothing to brag about I can tell you that.

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#17 7/14/2014 1:53 pm

M4J0R P41N
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From: Scotland
Registered: 5/24/2013
Posts: 186
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Re: Why I think TW3 is dead and how Upgrade ruined it.

Autos

First things first, everyone complains about autos being used and make the assumption that players nowadays have virtually no skill. One thing I find quite funny is that people complain about this when:

1. They could make there very own attacking autos which would be unique and may give them an advantage over an opponent early in the game. This then forces the opponent to make new autos to fight back. This process however was not there after autos were leaked. Instead players in my opinion became lazy and didn't look to counter any autos they themselves came up against. This then leads to my second point.
2. Players could manufacture moves to defend against autos. This is what I touched on when I said that other players should fight back. I know that this is what made Marc so good as a player in my eyes, he was able to defend very well against autos. There is still nothing stopping people from doing this.

To conclude on this, I feel that I among with some of the other players who are at the top of the game have not been regarded as skilled players due to these autos. I'm disappointed in this as we all have very good grenades in addition to some pin point mortars which nine times out of ten are not autos. Fair enough we all have a varying amount of autos, I myself have all the autos that were quite stupidly put up on sites. I'm not proud to admit that I have so many. Hoping Sean will back me here as the first game I played in about a week a few days back with him I used one auto and got lucky a few times. I don't see it as an accomplishment nor a bragging right to win, however it shows that players like myself don't actually use autos all the time like a select few do and still win against good players. I will happily play anyone who wants to see me without autos as I would probably be better than I am with them. Out of all the autos I have, I learned like 10 from sites. My own library is about 9-12 per map although I rarely use them because I don't want people ss'ing them. At the end of the day players use autos as slander against most of us and its not right because as I've said players could easily combat them if they actually cared about the game.

Skill Rank

Well to be honest I've never been one to boost an account for the game to get on the leaderboards. I thought it was good to use as if you're using it legitimately you can try and keep it as high as you can by playing people which is what I do. Problems arise from boosting as the skill rank clearly doesn't reflect a player. As far as players not playing each other because a legit skill rank is high well that's tough shit, just need to try another player. Like said by some earlier that if it wasn't there people still wouldn't play people because of wins etc.

As far as clans go, undercovers killed them in my eyes. Made them look like a joke. In addition I'd probably say that there are players left to recruit from the game its just a matter of getting people to actually do it and not go for just pros, my clan actually recruited both. Undercovers just destroyed the trust though in any new players we found from the game that actually were good. Lastly, the fact that players began to war each other as undercovers is the most irritating thing. Sly warred himself countless times.

Anyways thanks for reading, just thought I'd put up my views on some of the stuff that's happening. I'd appreciate any feedback as I feel like I've glossed over things a lot and could go into more detail if I didn't have driving lesson in a few minutes.


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#18 7/14/2014 2:34 pm

Seanishere
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Registered: 8/7/2012
Posts: 1333

Re: Why I think TW3 is dead and how Upgrade ruined it.

Players like Crazy Puri Kick Rev and I basically know 0 autos at all and we still consider ourselves pretty good. However, pure skill usually cannot beat all autos which is why I don't think your tournament is very fair for that reason and a few others that we've talked about before.

Also, Calum, you defend autos like they were supposed to be a part of this game when they are not. It proves that most new players rely on autos more than skill because they've completely left out the skill part in their "training."

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#19 7/14/2014 3:30 pm

Rodimus Mike
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From: Chicago
Registered: 12/20/2010
Posts: 3475

Re: Why I think TW3 is dead and how Upgrade ruined it.

Upgrade didn't kill TW3, TW3 being a flash game in 2014 killed TW3.

You can blame Upgrade, or cheat sheets, or the maps, or the bounce of the grenades, and any other magical reason you want. After you're done telling me I'm wrong be sure to go play a game on Steam or sit on the toilet and play an app on your phone.


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#20 7/14/2014 3:32 pm

Kai
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Registered: 12/17/2010
Posts: 3812
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Re: Why I think TW3 is dead and how Upgrade ruined it.

I've never found undercovers a bad thing tbh


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#21 7/14/2014 4:11 pm

Seanishere
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Registered: 8/7/2012
Posts: 1333

Re: Why I think TW3 is dead and how Upgrade ruined it.

They weren't a bad thing but at the same time they weren't a good thing either, they were just a nuisance/annoyance.

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#22 7/14/2014 4:15 pm

Chilly Dog
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From: 12
Registered: 12/12/2012
Posts: 94
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Re: Why I think TW3 is dead and how Upgrade ruined it.

Mnaah. Nubs with the cheat sheet still have no strat. Easy prey.
And at the end we all are subject to the same BS.
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#23 7/14/2014 5:48 pm

Walrus King
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From: Tennessee
Registered: 12/2/2009
Posts: 4570

Re: Why I think TW3 is dead and how Upgrade ruined it.

Puri wrote:

SW was always a clan and very active from the beggining of the beta stages of the game to early 2013 which was when they stopped, same for TNT and XS. Then we stopped playing because we eventually got bored and found interest in other games such as SSL2. But before retiring we were always warring most of the time so I don't know where you are getting that the three main clans rarely warred.

Your first sentence is why I didn't consider them TW3 clans. How can you call those three clans the biggest ones of 2013 and say that they were "always" clans but then claim that they stopped at the beginning of 2013? Where's the logic in that? You even admit that you guys just got bored of TW3, which would cause it to be less active obviously, and yet you still say that Up killed it.


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#24 7/14/2014 5:54 pm

Kai
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From: .red: 12/17/2010
Registered: 12/17/2010
Posts: 3812
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Re: Why I think TW3 is dead and how Upgrade ruined it.

unfunny Adventure Time meme just killed your respect from me man

Undercovers to me were at most just being dishonest. I didn't have a problem when undercovers were winning wars for my clan. My trick? Treat every new member as a new member, there were no 'undercovers' in my clan unless I was notified of who they really were and why they were going undercover (mostly personal reasons). Why do people hate them so much? Maybe because they give them too much power (i.e sly warring himself). I would never let a new member war until I decide he or she is good enough to represent the clan.

Personally, I've never went undercover. I never found it appealing except when possibly doing it in groups (pokemon clan back in tw2). What's my point? Undercovers are just people hiding for a reason, good or bad. It's still up to you how much clan power you give them, and that should give you no reason to complain.


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#25 7/14/2014 6:02 pm

Kick2Legit
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From: California
Registered: 6/9/2012
Posts: 282
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Re: Why I think TW3 is dead and how Upgrade ruined it.

How could you not consider SW a TW3 clan or a top clan of 2013? Yeah we weren't playing TW3 as much due to the lack of clans to compete with and inactivity in others. I don't know if you knew but SW, TNT, and XS were all just one clan at one point. We made the decision to split up into three different clans because we didn't have any wars going on which is just about whats going on right now. Our decision to split up made clans in TW3 way more active and contributed to the activity of clans when clans werr as dead as they are now.

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